On my way to the grocery store yesterday on 23rd Avenue and 41st street, I passed a small group of picketers, toting signs that read "Stop the Obama Deception". Did I miss something? Or do they not understand the definition of "deception"? I'm guessing they've been listening to Rush Limbaugh and I can't say that I'm up to date on what he's preaching at the moment (not worthy of my time).
There is a difference between "deception" ie...the Bush Administration and "transparency" ie... The Obama Administration. "Deception" dear picketers is when someone misleads you by giving you a false impression of the truth. ie...that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that there was a connection between al-Qaida and Sadam Hussain and the 911 attacks.
Our President has disclosed everything, including the reasoning behind his decisions to "change his mind" and if one reads all the news, not just listens to biased Republican chatter, they might understand, he had good reason for everything he's changed his mind on and I agree with those reasons. I'm sure there was a lot of negotiating, advising and consideration for the consequences of those actions as there should be. He didn't just up and change his mind.
So the closing of GITMO has been extended and disturbing photos of torture are being kept from the "public". You would assume that this would make the Republicans happy, but as I have discovered from watching the news, they will take every opportunity to try to make our President look bad by twisting the stories to suit their agenda. THAT IS DECEPTION!!
Anyway, back to our picketers, they were encouraging cars to honk if they were in a agreement. The intersection was pretty quiet except for the car in front of me. I observed that they were all young men with shaved heads..hmmm. I found myself falling into "stereotyping" and yelling out my car window "Republicans!" as if it were a bad word. Reflecting on it as I walked through the grocery store, I was a bit ashamed at myself (I also called the people in the car in front of me "skinheads")
This incident is a good example of what is happening to the country by just a few talking heads in the news. Subconsciously we are all being brainwashed. I love my country and I am falling for rhetoric that is deviding it. The news is no longer objective and we read and listen to "other peoples opinions". Those that don't have one take what they hear as fact rather than making up their own minds by looking at the big picture with logic, common sense and reasoning and developing their own opinion.
Peace
Liz
Monday, May 18, 2009
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13 comments:
Here is what they are picketing about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
After viewing the above video it only reinforced my beliefs. Throughout the video, the conspiracy theorists "speculated", "twisted" and read into the interviewees statements what they wanted to hear. Its like reading the bible, anyone can read into it what they want and twist it to fit their own agenda.
I'm not surprised these people had government tails on them, if you listen to their protests outside the white house, they demonstrated a threat to the President. Pretty soon they will be claiming he's the "Antichrist" and those who know the origins of the Book of Revelations, know it was written to strike fear into the people and keep them in line.
I could continue but I think I'd end up writing a book. I suggest that the people view the video for themselves and listen carefully to those who are interviewed and the responses by the narrator and his use of words. I don't hear any evidence to back up their statements. I'm reminded of Hitler dropping fliers out airplanes, the only difference is, its on YouTube.
Peace
Liz
There is quite a debate going on regarding this post at Quadville.com, my local networking site. If you'd like to follow or join in please cut and past the link below...
http://my.quadsville.com/post/ckrofone/blog/disturbed_by_picketers_against_obama_2.html?nc=5/19/2009%201:04:16%20PM
Because there are related postings taking place on another network I felt it was relevant that all should be able to participate. The following are those comments:
Posted by: srm on May 18, 2009 1:38PM EST
Since you deleted the duplicate entry, I'll just repost here in case others are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
A documentary film called The Obama Deception.
And I would venture a guess that those protesters do understand deception. A deception is when you promise things to get something and then completely do the opposite of what you promised once you get that something. You know, kind of like what Obama is currently doing.
Posted by: ckrofone on May 18, 2009 5:24PM EST
I've watched the video, its posted on my site in the comments. Deception is being "deliberately" misled which I see no evidence of that occurring at this time only speculations and assumptions being stated as fact without being able to back up their claims. My response to that video is also on the original posting.
Peace
Liz
Posted by: srm on May 19, 2009 8:45AM EST
Well, looking at your site, you appear to be one of those people that agree with Obama no matter what he does. So I'm assuming 3 weeks ago when he said he was going to release the torture photos, you agreed with him. However, last week when he "changed his mind" you were once again in agreement with him. In other words, it doesn't matter if people lay out all of the deceptions, you'll just write it off as "changing his mind" and say it's a good thing. How do you reconcile that?
And you find fault with republicans? When I look at them and the type of people like yourself, I see the same person.
Posted by: ckrofone on May 19, 2009 9:26AM EST
No, I don't think there is any reason that the public should be able to view those photos, they are crime scene photos and it serves no purpose other than to aggravate the terrorists. And now with the release of the classified files with biblical passages on them, it will again make the situation worse.
I still see no deception in the Presidents actions, he's disclosed everything and given legitimate reasons behind his actions . Do you have kids? If you promised to take them to see a movie and upon viewing it before hand you found its content to be offensive and inappropriate, are you going to still hold to your promise even if the consequences are damaging to your children?
Some of my best friends are Republicans, but they demonstrate common sense and reasoning. I find fault with a certain handful of Republicans that disgrace the Republican party.
Peace
Liz
Posted by: srm on May 19, 2009 10:16AM EST
Do you think there should be torture investigations and prosecutions of Bush administration officials who sanctioned and gave "legal" cover to the acts of torture committed in our country's name?
Posted by: ckrofone on May 19, 2009 11:14AM EST
Yes I do, and because he's delayed the closing of GITMO, I don't think that means anything other than they need more time to iron out what went on and what to do with the detainees. I will be very surprised and also disappointed if there is no repercussions for those involved.
If you've noticed, the longer he waits, the more evidence and officials involved are brought to light and are virtually betraying themselves. As my friends sit and yell at the t.v., I believe the man has a plan, a constitutional lawyer would not let that go unresolved and those involved, unpunished.
My theory is that he's making them sweat so bad, not knowing what he's going to do, that they keep implicating themselves in the process of trying to clear themselves.
Peace
Liz
Posted by: srm on May 19, 2009 11:39AM EST
And how long are you going to allow him to wait? 6 months? 1 year? 2 years? I can tell you, emphatically, that there will be no investigation if left up to the government. Only public outrage and demands for investigation will prompt an investigation. Without those photos, ignorant Americans are going to stay ignorant. As I was telling a friend a few days ago, you can deny the written word of claiming kids were sodomized in front of their parents (a claim that such an act took place in Abu Gharib). You can deny this because there is no "proof" other than a he said, she said. However, if there is a photo of said act, you can no longer deny it happened. That is the point the public becomes outraged and can no longer sit back and be complacent about what was done in our country's name. Until then, Obama and his administration will continue to string you along and you will continue to make excuses for his acts.
Also, further release of photos will demonstrate that these acts weren't the result of a few rogue soldiers as it was played off and accepted 4 years ago. These techniques were orchestrated from the top of the food chain. And if politicians are good at anything, it's good at protecting their own. They protect their own institutions. There have already been Senate committee reports saying this wasn't the result of a few rogue soldiers. And if you want to claim that these photos will "aggravate the terrorists" then why do we continue to kill civilians in Afghanistan in such high numbers? Just last week we bombed a wedding and killed up to 100 civilians. Are you suggesting that anything the government does that is embarrassing should be covered up?
Just because you're a constitutional lawyer in a previous life doesn't mean you'll follow the Constitution once you become president. Obama's administration has already made many decisions, in the first 100 days, that are anti-Constitution. He's continuing the extreme view of the "state secrets" privilege in shielding the government from lawsuits. He just said that he's going to continue military commissions. His CIA director just said he's going to ask for the permissions to use enhanced interrogation tactics that were supposedly banned by Obama. Instead of using Guantanamo for detention, he wants to use Bagram thinking he can ignore any laws and decisions that the Supreme Court has issued against executive branch power. I mean, how many anti-Constitution acts do you have to do before people wake up?
Posted by: John T Moeller on May 19, 2009 12:27PM EST
After watching much Iowa Public Television series lately it is evident that 'We' are safe in this moment of time only because of the secrecy of the world leaders when Hitler thought he could create the perfect race. History will judge the leadership of the Bush administration in the decades to come when the veil of secreacy is lifted from the records of our world leaders. American commentors cannot rule America, all we can do is perhaps be a faster representation of public opinion then what was available twenty years ago.
Posted by: ckrofone on May 19, 2009 1:04PM EST
There is an investigation going on as we speak. The previous released photos were plastered all over the news as were video's. People are already outraged as are much of the media and heads states and countries. It is not being ignored.
If the ignorant choose to "not" watch the news and turn the other cheek, plastering photos on street corners is not going to make a difference at this point for they are already hiding behind the comfort of their own insignificant lives. Its like having Jehovah's witnesses knocking on your door trying to change your religion, its only going to irritate them more and they are going to hide in their houses and not answer the door.
Those of us left who care and have been following the news, have watched our former heads of Government implicate themselves and others by opening their mouths and inserting their feet. You said yourself that "there is a Senate Committee report saying this wasn't the result of a few rogue soldiers". So are they protecting their own? which is it?
We are at war and though it is sad that innocent civilians have been killed in the action, unfortunately that's going to happen. Why make it worse? Bush just made it worse again by stating it was a "crusade" and made it appear we were fighting in the name of God! "God spoke to him" he said. The name of God shouldn't be evoked in war period. Have people forgotten the commandment "thou shalt not kill?" There are no exceptions.
The fact that Bush has embarrassed the Country has not been covered up at all and as for our President, he has publicly apologized and taken responsibility for anything he has said that may have been embarrassing.
The Federal Government has always been exempt from lawsuits and Obama has demonstrated that he is trying to be as transparent as possible. There is a difference between lawsuits and being held criminally responsible for a crime. No one is above the law. If the Government were susceptible to lawsuits, every Tom, Dick and Harry would be wasting time and money belonging to the tax payers to sue for for completely ridiculous claims just to gain a buck.
As for the CIA director asking permission to continue the "enhanced" interrogation tactics, I've not heard that yet but I wish them luck, I don't believe that will happen. Obama has stated that he would continue with "approved" and "legal" tactics outlined by the Geneva Convention while GITMO is open, also allowing the detainees being held a fair trial. How is that Unconstitutional?
Peace
Liz
Posted by: srm on May 19, 2009 7:11PM EST
What investigation? There is absolutely NO criminal investigation going on in regards to legalizing torture under the Bush administration.
So issuing a Senate Committee report is the same as a jury issuing a verdict? Issuing reports is what they do! They have to do something or the populace might start to think they're worthless and why have them around. Issuing a report doesn't mean anything because NOBODY reads them. Did you even know about that report? Did you see it anywhere in the media?
Technically, we aren't at war. We haven't been at war since 1945. And of course innocent civilians are going to die in military conflicts. My point was that what's going to anger people in the Middle East more? Our continued support for Israel's genocide of the Palestinians and the killing of civilians in military conflicts or a few photos? As I asked, should we expect the government to cover up everything that is embarrassing to them and might anger people in the Middle East? I see very little transparency from the Obama administration.
Where do you get off saying that the federal government is exempt from being sued? That simply isn't the case. And if you think nobody is above the law, you must be new to politics and/or this country. President Bush admitted to committing a felony on NATIONAL TV and I don't believe he's sitting in jail right now. Politicians are above the law. We are not. You try committing some of the criminal acts they do and see how long you stay out of jail.
Posted by: ckrofone on May 19, 2009 9:53PM EST
As in true Republican fashion, you are trying to twist what I said and are contradicting yourself..
You said "And if politicians are good at anything, it's good at protecting their own. They protect their own institutions. There have already been Senate committee reports saying this wasn't the result of a few rogue soldiers." Is that statement one of a committee protecting their own? No.
In the next comment you state "There is absolutely NO criminal investigation going on in regards to legalizing torture under the Bush administration." Yet you just said there was "but nobody reads them".
I, nor anyone else has stated that we are in court or that the committee is a jury expected to hand down a verdict. It is those reports that will determine what action is taken and they are read and they are reported on in the news. I would suggest you watch MSNBC from 7:00pm to 10:00pm, nightly.
Those 2000 photos are going to anger the "Terrorists", it would be instigating them to attack our men and women overseas and possibly on our homeland, is that what you want? And are we at war or not because in your last comment we were and now "technically" we aren't?
Did I not say "nobody is above the law"? I'm certain that I did.
"The Federal Government can only be sued if it lets if self be sued. Even then, if the judicial branch of the Government even allows a case to go forward it has no authority to order the US House of Representatives (where all spending bills must originate) to pay the judgment. The IRS for example has literally lost lawsuit after lawsuit but never pays up." You can however sue your city or your state. But what does "suing" the Federal Government have to do with any of this?
Yes, President Bush unintentionally implicated himself as well as many others in his administration, stating "because the President approved it, it was OK".
You are upset that no one is in jail, Let me ask you this: Do you want the Government to "Rush" into criminal charges without a thorough investigation, leaving the door open for error? which could lead to a case being thrown out and charges dropped? If you watched the news, on a weekly basis someone in the Bush Administration is unintentionally confessing. Last week it was Nancy Pelosi, this week its Karen Hughs. Give it time, it will all come together.
You want Bush in jail, but don't you think he has a right to a fair trial? Or should we just throw him in Jail like at GITMO and ask questions later? Wouldn't that be "Unconstitutional"?
Your argument is contradictory and full of holes. Use your common sense and reasoning and pay attention. Take your arguments up with your Congressman. I've enjoyed the debate.
Peace
Liz
Posted by: ckrofone on May 19, 2009 10:59PM EST
Correction to above statement on MSNBC. You will want to watch between 9:00pm and 11:00pm rather than 8:00 to 10:00.
My apologies
Peace
Liz
Posted by: srm on May 19, 2009 11:16PM EST
You just don't get it. Politicians protect each other. Committees will issue reports all day pointing fingers, but at the end of the day they're just words. NOTHING is done. Is Carl Levin on the news every night talking about the conclusion in that report? Is he really pressuring for investigations? How about Harry Reid (closet Republican that he is). Nancy Pelosi has been real silent lately. If you look up and down the roster of Democratic and Republican leadership in both houses, they are strangely quiet in regards to investigations. They're just doing what they normally do, playing politics to appease the mouth breathers of this country until the next distraction comes along and we can quietly forget about torture. Who remembers back to last year and the great democratic capitulation over telecom immunity? That was a travesty that should be remembered for a long time. Obama led the way on that. Yet I guarantee you'll get blank looks on the vast majority of people if you ask them about it. In the end, until a grand jury is convened nothing will happen. I can almost guarantee you that nothing will come of this torture scandal except maybe a few more Charles Graners will be jailed for a few years.
Just look at the meme in the mainstream media now. It's all about what Pelosi knew and whether she lied or not. Who the hell cares what Pelosi knew in the grand scheme of things? Did she write the legal memos? Did she order the military and CIA to torture? Did she do the torture herself? THOSE are the real crimes. Pelosi's crime is minor compared to those.
As for the war comment, I sometimes slip up and just say war because the average person doesn't understand how war is declared. Instead of explaining why I would normally say military conflict, I get lazy and just say war. The normal, ignorant American thinks that if the President deploys the troops we're "at war." These are the same people that can't even list 2 of our Bill of Rights. So pardon me for being a bit lazy with my words.
You are damn right I'm upset nobody is in jail. These people tarnished MY country for absolutely no reason. And now they're going to get away with their crime because people like you are being complacent in pressuring for investigations. Anybody that admits to committing a crime doesn't need a thorough investigation. If you murder someone and tell the police you did it, how much of an investigation is really needed for a jury? Seriously.
People like you think Obama has some brilliant plan, but isn't telling anybody. Well I hate to break it to you, the only plan he has is to bend the American people over and give it to them. Just like his predecessors.
Posted by: ckrofone on May 20, 2009 8:58AM EST
All I'm hearing now are the same assumptions, fears and opinions. Little fact to back your claims. I hear them talk about this on the news "nightly". Its a hot topic on the channel I watch. And if you still believe politicians are going to protect there own, why are there several being prosecuted now and there are a some in jail.
As for Pelosi, Hell yeah she's important, another witness. Sir, I am sorry but they need to build their case with "Witnesses" also. To prosecute there are proceedings and if you commit a crime and confess to it, you are still entitled to a "fair" trial. Isn't that what this topic is all about? The "unconstitutional" actions of our previous Government? God forbid we might have missed someone guilty of being involved and they continue to walk the streets. Wouldn't that anger you?
I'm concluding my responses to your comments as you are now just repeating what you've already said with no fact or evidence. You are an angry person who doesn't like the way the system works or our President, or anyone in the Government. And your fear is driving you to make unrealistic assumptions.
There's a wealth of information on the internet to check the facts. Don't base your opinion on what others think, do the research and then make up your mind. Then come back and we'll debate.
Peace
Liz
Posted by: ckrofone on May 20, 2009 9:14AM EST
Thank you for your input as well Tom Moeller. I agree with you in that regard.
Peace
Liz
Posted by: srm on May 20, 2009 10:53AM EST
Hahaha. No facts or evidence? I've given you a ton to read up on. It really does appear you're new to politics and the reporting of politics. For that, I'll give you a small break. However, that is no reason to remain ignorant of what is really going on. You tell me what facts and evidence you want as you appear to be oblivious to them since you're so new to this arena and I'll get them to you. It's readily available if you choose to digest them.
Posted by: ckrofone on May 20, 2009 2:52PM EST
You have a right to your "opinion", you've given me nothing to read up on. but I'm not going to carry on as its pointless to continue arguing over your opinions, everybody has one. Facts speak for themselves.
Peace
Liz
Posted by: Rennesianceman on May 20, 2009 3:38PM EST
To:smi....Dude are you out of your mind? I respect your opinion and your right to voice it. I'm a died in the wool Republican and spent 20 years covering politics in the written press. You seem to think the worst of a man who has been in office just over 100 days. The inauguration does not come with a magic wand and Congress is not going to disappear anytime soon. You obviously don't understand politics or the world dynamic and it makes me mad that you profess to do so. Get off your conspiracy theory version of politics and start paying attention! GITMO is the least of our worries. Im a bit more concerned about the fact that our world food reserves are at a 70 year low and that the 'Green Revolution' of the 60's may have bankrupted us all before we knew it. Run for President...Let's see what you do with it.
Posted by: srm on May 20, 2009 10:06PM EST
I don't think the worst of him. I think his first 100 days have shown that he's just a typical politician despite professing change throughout 2008. Once he actually got into office, he's reversed most of his stances he had during the campaign. Sure, he's brought a little bit of change compared to Bush, but nothing real significant. He's just Bush lite right now.
And you know, I'm REALLY sick of people denigrating the phrase "conspiracy theory" and applying it to those who you disagree with. Conspiracy's happen EVERY DAY. 9/11 was a conspiracy. OKC bombing was a conspiracy. First WTC bombing was a conspiracy. Manhattan project was a conspiracy. Gulf of Tonkin was a conspiracy. You conspiring with your wife to get your kids to eat vegetables is a conspiracy. So if I believe a conspiracy theory that you and your wife were trying to trick your kids into eating vegetables, you're going to consider me a kook? Get off your high horse.
Both of you can come talk to me next year when NOTHING has changed. I know, you'll just throw out the "give him more time" "inauguration does not come with a magic wand" or whatever else excuse you want. But the fact will remain we will be in a worse spot than we are now.
And I agree with you about food reserves. They are dangerously low and NOBODY knows it or will talk about it. Just like nobody wants to talk about peak oil. Or the fact that our fresh water is running out. Or the fact that man made global warming is a myth. Or that cap and trade is just a massive tax on us that will drive even more industry out of this country. I'll be happy to have a discussion with you about any of those if you want. However, if someone is going to talk politics, I'm talking politics.
I wish I could run for president. I still have a few more years until I'm legally able to.
Posted by: ckrofone on May 20, 2009 11:04PM EST
What Obama has done for me his first 100 days....
I got let go from my company of 3 years. The previous month, February 17, 2009 he passed a bill allowing me to get my COBRA at a 65% discount because my separation was involuntary. I also get an additional $25.00 a week on my unemployment check. In addition to that, My son is going to be able to go to college because of the stimulus package that was approved and because I am a single mother that has been displaced by my job I am entitled to funds to return to school as well. So, don't tell me NOTHING has changed!!!!
Peace
Liz
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